On October 31, 2008, three representatives from Nazar – Vaibhav Jain, Mrinalini Ranjan and Rohan Garg - spoke with the maestro just before he was to perform the next day at the Texas School for the Deaf in Austin.

Nazar: Today’s student has the ability to record his own voice or that of his guru and listen to it again and again at convenience. He/She has machines that provide him with accompaniment – both sur and taal (notes and beats) – and thus aid in practicing independently. Yet, Saadhana (here, intense practicing) is a diminishing trait. What is the future of Shastriya Sangeet (Indian Classical Music) in this respect?

Pandit Jasraj: The most important element of instruction of Hindustani Shastriya Sangeet is ‘Gurmukh Vidya’ – The vidya (knowledge) that comes from the mukh (mouth) of the guru (teacher) and that is received by the shishya (student). If a person has a good capacity to learn or grasp music, then he (or she) can go far but only to a certain extent. However, as soon you sit together with such a musician/student (and sing awhile), it soon becomes obvious that he hasn’t been trained - it is rare for that to not be apparent.

What we call a Gharana – it isn’t just a name – is more like a college. Just like there are Arts Colleges, Science colleges and so on, similarly there exist Gharanas. It’s a style that induces others to immediately recognize what Gharana a singer belongs to. The same Raga is sung in different Gharanas but the way of singing is slightly different from one to the other. Some compositions may also vary. Further, each Gharana can be carried forth by generations of family members and sometimes by disciples of a particular proponent. There is never any Hindu-Muslim issue that crops up in the passing on of these musical traditions.

On that note, there are many forms of art today– from theater to rock bands – carrying a politico-secular message from village to village. How involved is Indian Classical Music in adopting this initiative?

Like I said, in Indian Classical Music, there have never existed any feelings of differences. Often Pandit Jasraj is accompanied on stage by Ustad Zakir Hussain on the Tabla and sometimes, say, Rashid Miyaan is accompanied by Ramnath. It has to do with the atmosphere on stage – there never is a feeling of distinction or one of suppressing the other artist based on his religion. It just happens naturally that as soon as someone touches a pure Sa¹, everyone present becomes oblivious to their own identity.

What about political issues? For example, say, Narmada or ….

Look, as far as Narmada is concerned, an issue has been fabricated and is being raised needlessly. That dam – Sardar Sarovar – was initiated and was being built by the British. The only wrong we have done is in taking so long with the implementation of the project. The British started making it in 1927. Look at the fact that since completion (partly), it has benefited Gujarat so much. Whoever has attempted to stop these efforts, and made various allegations; do they have an answer to the fact that now there is fresh drinking water in Gujarat? Can they deny that the beautiful land of Saurashtra, that had become so barren, has now become fertile and has water to quench the needs of the soil? About 4-5 crore² people are peacefully drinking water and this is only in Gujarat. The benefits are also going to help Madhya Pradesh and Maharashtra but primarily, Gujarat.

Narsinh Mehta’s words “Vaishnava³ Jana Toh Tene Kahiye Je, Peed Parai Jaane Re” that you sing so often; how far does a musician fit the definition?

Look, when they are singing, they are all Vaishnavas3. That’s absolutely true. For as long as they sing, practice, play the Tanpura, Sitar, Sarod or Tabla, they stay Vaishnava to the core.

Then there are Soor Das’s message “Sabse Oonchi Prem Sagai”. How successful is the marriage between spirituality and music?

Listen to this one thing. Our music – Bharatiya Sangeet – is, essentially, music from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Nepal and India. Just a brief look at these regions should tell you that the music emanating from them is definitely spiritual. If you sing by way of making an offering,“God! This offering is my service towards you, please accept it”, then that is spirituality right there!

Music is close to both ‘Bhagwan’ and ‘Allah miyaan’. I mention Allah miyaan since there was a recent Pakistani movie – Khuda Ke Liye – where it is clearly shown that Music is not haraam⁴ in Islam. Many down the years have said and continue to say that music is prohibited in Islam but now the truth is out and it has deeply touched my heart. The film shows directly from the Quran and other such texts that there is no substance to all those claims. Have we forgotten that Dawood Paigambar used to sing himself? How can it then be haraam?

In modern times, how faithful have they been to each other?

Whether spirituality rests in one’s perspective depends on the person involved. However, be it while he (or she) dances, plays or sings – the Almighty is fond of all of these. Sangeet, by the way, comprises of all three forms – dancing, singing and playing an instrument.

Has your music changed with respect to changing times?

Listen to me carefully. That which is alive, shows movements and shows change. However, if you contemplate changes needlessly, then you mess things up. It happens itself, as you go on singing. The process is also worth noting. I am walking along some way and I hear someone sing beautifully or something playing melodiously and there is this particular musical phrase that I pick up. Next, when I perform, I might include this improvisation and people might appreciate this new movement or, perhaps, I like it myself. I keep repeating it to myself in different forms – again and again. That is how change should take place.

How beneficial are performances to the development of your music?

Every performance and every program is like an examination. We don’t ever get done with them or graduate as in other fields. If we sing well then we get invited to more and more such programs. If we don’t sing that well then the programs that we are offered are also likewise.

How easy or hard is it for people at your level to recognize or hear of upcoming talent?

You may think that it is a huge country and news doesn’t travel. However, when it comes to music, the vastness vanishes to quite an extent. Whether a school teacher in Delhi or singing in Paris, if someone is singing Shastriya Sangeet well then it definitely reaches us.

You just sang a song recently for a film - ‘1920’. It is definitely a different experience. Did you never feel like exploiting your potential in commercial cinema?

It is different. You give the music director what he wants from you – that’s all. At that level, one becomes a student. If I wanted to, I could have become big in that sphere too. After all I’m the son-in-law of V. Shantaram. However, it was never my goal.

Fusion music gains popularity; respect for classical musicians and adoration for western culture has combined to create a formulae that is much in-demand. What is your take on this new brand of music? Does the fusion work well for Hindustani Sangeet and its future? Is Jugalbandi⁵ a form of Fusion?

They are all different forms of music – ghazal⁶, fusion etc. They all sum up to define music. Every musician is basically trying to find a new path. Whether he is successful is in his (or her) hands. However, attempting is the main part. There is nothing bad about that.

Our Music – Bharatiya music, as I defined it earlier – is really advanced. Not only is it spiritual but also scientific. If we fuse any two or more forms of music – and let me do a “Tauba Tauba⁷” here since music is such a big thing – then Classical music always has to come down. One has to step down many levels unless the capacity or caliber of the western music that is being included is close to ours. Otherwise, our musicians have to climb down from their capacity. This is true for any instrument, whether it be Violin, Sitar or Sarod. The only exception in my eyes is the Symphony Orchestra. That alone is so unique and marvelous that our music hasn’t come up with an equal.

Jugalbandi is a great form of music that we have. However, if you want to look at things this way then go ahead. A jugalbandi between Karanataka Sangeet and North Indian music can be called fusion. If the craze is just about the name then go ahead and proclaim that Dr. Bala Murli and Pt. Jasraj are performing fusion music. He’s an amazing artist himself and when we perform together, it translates into a great, big show. If I were to sing with Pandit Hari Prasad Chaurasiya, you can call it a jugalbandi with the flute or a fusion with the flute. The music remains the same.

What is your take on reality music shows on TV?

I think we will greatly benefit from them. People openly talk about the fact that our heritage isn’t represented truly by Bollywood – there has always been that awareness. People have spoken out and said that this music, that is ours, needs an ear.

However, the artist needs to be of a high caliber – that is a must. When these shows started out, we felt that this is going to take our music down, but it has certainly begun bridging a big gap that was the lack awareness.

Many people argue that Classical music is losing out with the rise of these shows but I don’t see that happening. For how long is the winner of an Indian Idol show or a Star Voice of India even remembered? All those winners from the very first edition of these shows - they won all those grand big prizes but were they that below par that no one knows them today?

You are amongst the most celebrated artists. At what point did the elation convert into a philosophical conclusion that destiny or God has helped you reach where you are today?

Look, this respect that we give or receive the very fact that you are sitting today in front of me – it’s all His (or Her) will. Why else would I be with you today and you with me? Once God decides to make things the way He wills – ‘this man will speak with you, you will have to answer his questions’ – that’s how they will be. In the Bhagavada Gita, Bhagwan (God) says that ‘I am work. I am action’. Do you understand? The fact that you have left your country and are here to study and succeed – that is God, Himself. Put your heart in your studies and work, but offer it all to Him; it reaches Him.

Honor is always honor – whether you get it before or after or whenever – never undermine it! Never say that I’ve had enough of it; that is unthinkable. Never compare how much honor you have received compared to someone else either. If in your heart you respect me, and if you wish to make an offering, how can I belittle it? I believe in ‘Aatma So Parmaatma’ (soul & its supreme form). If you want to give me respect, then it is a big thing since it has germinated in you. Do you understand the word ‘Upja’? – Germinated – Jeete Raho⁸!

Which performance has been your most memorable one? Any artists that you feel you enjoyed performing with the most?

It’s like this, when the public began listening to me, there were a couple of programs that went well; I am and will be reminded of those all my life. The ones in the middle also must have gone well which is why I am here today. One doesn’t remember the ones in the middle as much. I have performed with many an artist. I have sung a lot with Bala Murli Ji, Hari Prasad Ji. The one that stands out, though, was with L. Subramaniam.

At the age of 78, who/what is Jasraj singing to/for?

Look, like I said before, just offer your music to Him. Whenever we sing, or He makes us sing, it is essentially being served to Him. I also said previously that ‘Atma so Parmatma’ – It is Bhagwan within you who is speaking, walking – we all are just a part of him. This is because we possess (or are) an Atma whereas He is ‘Param Atma’(Supreme Soul). That’s all there is to it.

I am a member of a local qawwali⁹ group called Riyaaz. We started performing two years ago and have found that a lot of Sufi¹⁰ content is similar to the Bhakti¹¹ lyrics.

If I sing out to Rama, it’s called a Bhajan¹² and if I sing to Allah it’s called sufi. The ‘Sufi’ craze today isn’t due to a new discovery. It has existed for ages. ‘Dohde’ for example, in Hindi, praise Rama and in Punjabi or Urdu praise Allah Miyaan. A lot of content in Indian Music talks about love. There are two types of love – with humans and with Haq (Almighty). The content that is directed towards Haq is, in actuality, Sufiana.

These two meanings always apply to all content. There are comparisons that have been done too.

For example, Ghulam Farid wrote, “Ishq Te Aatish Do-in Baraabar, Jade Ishq Da Vaar Tatera” and Abida Parveen sings it quite often. It implies that love and fire are both equally poised (consuming) but love strikes deeper wounds.

There is a little difference, though. It is seldom seen that men believe in Him without actually seeing Him with their own eyes. In our religion, it is easy since we have idols or statues to help visualize and we love Him through this image and it gets bound to it. However, it becomes very hard to love one who is formless. It can be done at a Mizaaji¹³ level or through one’s state of being. Tulsidas and Surdas both loved God through this Mizaaji love that is much more physical in nature.

At a personal level, I have a problem.

Do you harbor love?

Not really. And that is my problem. A lot of what we sing as a group doesn’t apply to me. Neither do I take a liking to alcohol, nor have I ever been engaged in a relationship. I further don’t believe in a higher reality. How do I stay connected to my music?

It’s hard if you don’t believe in Him. Like I said, the path of love is Mizaaji. Without a ladder where will you go?

I do love life though. Can that be inspiring enough?

Then what else do you need? At least you’re engaged in love of some sort! Just keep in mind, that when you sing, it reaches Him since he loves it a lot. You sing but don’t call out to Him because you don’t believe in Him. However, remember, we have an Atma and He is Parmatma. Someone comes to your window, stands there and listens to your song. Till the time you sing, you make an impact on that person. As soon as you’re done you will be back where you started. However, if you offer what you sing to Him from your heart, then your music will always colorful throughout. Understand? You hear of all these great performances and great shows. They were great because He was present there.

Don’t worry! You’ll soon become a believer. In the absence of love, no one can sing.

What qualifications do I need to begin training with you?

Look, the relationship between music and a person doesn’t flower in a single lifetime. A person becomes a full-fledged artist after 5 lifetimes of association with it. Someone comes along and within a matter of 7-8 years sings such amazing music that he leaves us all pondering over our own achievements. You don’t have to be a ‘Matric-pass’ (high-school matriculate) or a ‘BA-pass’ to come to me. If it is in accordance with His nature (or will), then you can come over whenever.

The following questions were addressed to Pandita Tripti Mukherjee who was touring with Pandit Jasraj.

How long have you been training with Panditji? Has this riyaaz¹⁴ or training been a slow process? How do you feel about it?

I have been with Guruji for 32 years now. Slow process but at the same time a 24-hour process. Whenever he wills he begins to riyaaz; whether it is on the phone or while travelling in a car, taxi, train, plane, rickshaw or walking, he is always ready.

Music is now my life and that’s how I feel.

What do you feel about touring and performing in America? Does it get hectic? How do you shape up before a performance?

This is my work now. Traveling definitely does get hectic but it doesn’t bog me down when there is a performance or concert to look forward to. It is in our subconscious mind that we have to perform and that is how we prepare. The tanpura stays on the whole day and that is all we need. We don’t speak to anybody for a long time before the actual performance.

What are your views on the popularity that a big name draws in Classical Music compared to name that isn’t as big?

There is a large difference. People of all age groups attend, say, Pandit Jasraj’s performance because it is a big event. However, when we sing in India, the younger age group, from schools and colleges, does not attend at all. In our experience, only an audience comprised of elderly people bothers listening to our performances.

Footnotes

1. First/primary syllable of the saptak (which is similar to an octave)
2. 1 crore = 10 million
3. In general, Vaishnavas are worshippers of Vishnu; here, it refers to those who lead a disciplined life
4. an Arabic term meaning ‘forbidden’
5. Joint musical improvisation between two or more musicians in a conversational format
6. Form of song/poetry characteristic of rhyming couplets and a musical refrain
7. (here) seek forgiveness from God/Music for attempting to encompass something so vast in a sentence or thought
8. Live Long!; usually said to someone younger and equivalent to Bless You!
9. Devotional music with Sufi content
10. Muslim mysticism
11. Devotional way of reaching salvation
12. (here) A Hindu devotional song
13. (here) State of Being
14. practice

 
Photo Courtesy: spacejunk

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